200 CFM Research

Share whatca have found? Brainstorming? Only open to members

Postby slracer » Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:34 am

Tom, When I get home, I'll check my copy but if I remember right you are looking for areas which DON'T change the flow much. This shows slow flow and areas where adding wall might help. I really don't remember what he was doing for fast areas, but the velocity probe is an obvious answer. Good luck!

Doug
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Postby 200cfm » Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:21 pm

One point I did learn was the need to have a static pressure reading manometer. I don't have one so will try and build one this week to sniff around the port for the actual pressure readings. Also if you can look at his formula for calculating the air speed based on piston speed, piston bore, and port diameter. That's a new formula for me. Never seen it used anywhere else before. It's on page 104.
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Postby 49-1183904562 » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:03 am

Tom,

Glad to here you got the book and may have got something out of it I have read through it many times just getting basic experimental techniques. Do you pick up on his basic flow measuring device is the same thing Mr. Vizard posts as his easy/simple flow bench :p 20 years later

As Doug said the flow ball can be used to find dead spots, no change in depression or flow ??? with the ball in the port.

Rick




Edited By 1960FL on 1256569695
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Postby jfholm » Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:49 pm

Thanks Larry,
That will be helpful. Also don't you think you could make various shapes with JB Weld or something and attach it to a wire and see what kind of results? Maybe something wide enough to cover the whole SSR to see if building that up helps.

John
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Postby Flash » Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:31 pm

wow grate idea, Even better explanation of it!!!!!!


THANK Y0U!!!!!

The price will hold me off, for a while........but is DEFINITELY on my flow bench tool list :;):
Gordon
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Postby bruce » Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:50 pm

Go buy a pack of beads in various sizes at the local craft place with a hole in them and epxoy/glue them on a piece of rod.

Simple cheap flowballs . . .
"There is no more formidable adversary than one who perceives he has nothing to lose." - Gen. George S. Patton
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Postby jfholm » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:18 pm

bruce wrote:Go buy a pack of beads in various sizes at the local craft place with a hole in them and epxoy/glue them on a piece of rod.

Simple cheap flowballs . . .

I told my wife I needed to get some flow balls.....she slowly smiled and said "that is what I thought was giving you the desire to build that darn bench" ;-)

John
It is a wise man that learns from his mistakes, but it is a wiser man that learns from the mistakes of others.
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Postby 200cfm » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:50 pm

Yes, thanks Larry for that classroom instruction on "flowballs". Really excellent and I will pursue this concept further. I am off on a tangent here trying to upgrade the car with an air to air intercooler. Here is my homemade bonnet.

Image

Leaves are falling like snow here and the leaves are winning. When I get the time I am going to try and flow the intercooler on the bench. And hopefully flow different plumbing layouts for the most efficient system.

Another learning adventure for the PTS Bench.
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Postby bruce » Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:26 pm

I received the following in an email today so the Flowball information posted above was removed.



Hi Bruce!

I am Byron Wright, president of Thorpe Development. I am a member of your forum and have enjoyed immensely the interchange of ideas and information regarding flow benches on the forum.

I appreciated the posting of the link to my site in the 200 CFM Research thread. However the "Flow Ball Instruction Sheet" was intended to be distributed with the "Flow Balls" that I sell.

We appreciate you crediting us for the Flow Ball Instructions. However since we hadn't intended it to be freely distributed, we request that you edit the post to remove most of the instructional material.

Thank you very much, Byron




Edited By bruce on 1256851641
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Postby WPH » Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:06 pm

jfholm wrote:Thanks Larry,
That will be helpful. Also don't you think you could make various shapes with JB Weld or something and attach it to a wire and see what kind of results? Maybe something wide enough to cover the whole SSR to see if building that up helps.

John

I've done something like this to find out where the flow starts eddying on the port floor when closing up the SSR.
A T-shaped probe with a curvature of the port floor inserted to the port along it's floor will show up the break-up point of the flow.
You will see an instant rise on the test pressure when the probe hits the sweet spot. I don't go beyond this point when
grinding the port floor and SSR. Has worked very well for me in the past but I'll try to get more time to experiment with this kind of stuff.
Pekka
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Postby 200cfm » Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:47 pm

That is an excellent idea. Another strategy plan to remember. Late today I made history and flowed my intercooler. Hardest part was getting it to the bench and connected. It's heavy at close to 20 lbs. So I gave up on arm strength and resorted to my engine host and a tube extension to reach the bench. Crude, yes, but ... :p

I made up a plate with a hole that would flow close to 100 % incline at 28" wc. Wanted high test pressure and max incline to get some sensitivity. Then welded up a connection for the 90 degree turn. Flowed the 90 degree turn and hose connection for a base reference. Got 177.2 base cfm.

Connected up the intercooler and flowed inlet port A first. Then flowed port B only, then combined A & B.

Results:

Base Port A Port B Port A+B
177.2 155.9 161.9 173

Measured lost from base on combined AB is 2.37% if I am doing this procedure correctly.

Then I ported the inlet and outlet on the cooler. Inner castings are ruff so was hoping for a gain. Added a radius to the inner lip where the hose connects and gave some radi to the backside of the tube up inside. Took away the abrupt squareness and added some radi up inside where he connection tube ends and becomes inner chamber. And smooth up the inside of the connection.

Base Port A Port B Port A+B
177.2 162.9 166.2 174.8

Measured lost now at 1.34%.

Image :D
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Postby jfholm » Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:11 am

Tom,
That is really nice looking. You are getting to be quite a good fabricator. Your hat also looked very good.

John
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Postby 200cfm » Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:21 pm

John, I hope your wife is having a successful recovery and will be up an chasing you around soon. :D

I added the plumbing to be used on the tube layout and made some flow tests. The tubing made a big change.

Base B port A + B port % Loss
177.2 128.6 158.6 10.5

I included the turbo compressor housing as part of the test. I haven't flowed the actual 3 inch return from port C that would go to the carb. Looks like some more will be lost on the final C output leg. That leg will have the dreaded 90 degree turn from the C port. I am thinking that if the turbo compressors put out 10 lbs a good 1.5 to 2 lbs will be dropped across the tubing and intercooler by the time it finds the carb bonnet.

One thing I discovered is though the ports take a 2.5 and 3.0 hose connection, the actual ID of each port is under around 2.250 and 2.650. So I may gain some by porting out the ID more.

The tubing is from two separate kits I bought. Choices are only straight, 90 and 135 turns on the tubes so one leg is longer than necessary. (tom c)

Image
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Postby Flash » Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:06 am

I don't think you should figure, the compressor housing. into your flow figures.

It's restrictive, and need to be so, do to the nature of it all(I know, I'm not telling you any thing new were :D )

I thing all of it should be there but the turbo housing.

I think most of you lost is right there.

The air hasn't got a chance of slowing down until it leave that housing........I just wouldn't consider it a restriction in the system.

Flowing each housing on the bench to compare each other would be interesting.
Gordon
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