Got all the wiring squared away and got my bench running...finally. To my 'surprise' I have run into problems with the MSD style orifice disk leaking...about 54cfm of leakage at 10"wc according to my FP1. Getting rid of the rotating disk is the only change I have not made to the bench yet of the suggestions for the MSD style benches. I already have the deck plates and the settling chamber in place. I have decided to go with Bruce's style 6x6 style of orifice plates. I am wondering how people have attached the 6x6 plates to the bench to make sure they seal and are quick to change out? I am planning on boring a couple plates on my mill to make sure the rest of the bugs are out of the bench and then having Bruce make me up a couple of his sharp edge orifices.
Thanks,
Brian
first run of bench +orifice disk leakage revisited - lots of leakage with MSD style disk...
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by bseibenick » Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:42 pm
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by Thomas Vaught » Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:00 pm
I built ONE rotating orifice bench for a guy, never again. Stoppers and a fixed orifice plate from then on. LOL!
I am considering ideas for a removable orifice plate(s) deal but the more I look at it the more I may go with a deal like 86Rocco is working on or a version of Mouse's Tower of Power.
The thing I like about Mouse's deal is I could put the motor box on a bare wall. I would use 4 inch PVC pipe going to a rotating box. (The box would pivot clockwise and counter-clockwise with a pivot on each side of the box). The orifices (with stoppers) would be mounted inside the box (with a port hole for changing ranges). Coming out of the rotating box would be a 4 inch PVC pipe that would go to my plenum box or to the oil pan of an engine. I always liked some parts of the simple Car Craft flow bench deal and I always liked some parts of the Smokey Yunick deal.
No real valves in the system other than the one by-pass control valve like Mouse has and I would use a Veriac for most of the motor control tuning.
I already have a sealed block prepped for use with a flow bench. I am trying to find distribution fixes for the engine now using a orifice located in each cylinder bore at the bottom of piston travel. 8 "U-Tube" water manometers in a rack would tell me the air distribution per runner once it was in the cylinder.
Maybe just blowing smoke, but want to try the idea out.
Tom V.
I am considering ideas for a removable orifice plate(s) deal but the more I look at it the more I may go with a deal like 86Rocco is working on or a version of Mouse's Tower of Power.
The thing I like about Mouse's deal is I could put the motor box on a bare wall. I would use 4 inch PVC pipe going to a rotating box. (The box would pivot clockwise and counter-clockwise with a pivot on each side of the box). The orifices (with stoppers) would be mounted inside the box (with a port hole for changing ranges). Coming out of the rotating box would be a 4 inch PVC pipe that would go to my plenum box or to the oil pan of an engine. I always liked some parts of the simple Car Craft flow bench deal and I always liked some parts of the Smokey Yunick deal.
No real valves in the system other than the one by-pass control valve like Mouse has and I would use a Veriac for most of the motor control tuning.
I already have a sealed block prepped for use with a flow bench. I am trying to find distribution fixes for the engine now using a orifice located in each cylinder bore at the bottom of piston travel. 8 "U-Tube" water manometers in a rack would tell me the air distribution per runner once it was in the cylinder.
Maybe just blowing smoke, but want to try the idea out.
Tom V.
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by bseibenick » Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:33 pm
While installing my orifice plate system I found the major source of my leakage. It seems at some point my angled board that the orifice disk was mounted to broke away from the rest of the bench leaving a 1/2 gap on the top where I could not see it until I took the top of the chamber off. Another thing to get fixed...
Brian
Brian
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by Tony » Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:52 pm
A rotating orifice turret is fairly easy to make leak proof, provided the airflow is only ever in one direction. Air pressure compresses the parts, and it will not leak.
Another reason to build a KISS (keep it simple stupid) type flow bench with two test holes and flow in one direction.
Another reason to build a KISS (keep it simple stupid) type flow bench with two test holes and flow in one direction.
Also known as the infamous "Warpspeed" on some other Forums.
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by bseibenick » Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:56 pm
I have my new orifice plate system installed and while I had the bench apart I put another coat of paint and silicone sealer on all of my joints. Got everything back together last night and fired the bench up and did a leakage test. At 10"wc I am getting a leakage of about 80cfm. A little better than before I took out the orifice disk but not by much.
At this point I am kind of puzzled. To me everything seems as it should work. The only thing I can think of checking is the seal on the exhaust valve. I would imagine that if it was leaking it would affect the leakage test. When doing a leakage test I would imagine that the location of the incline manometer tubes inside the bench should not make much of a difference because there should be (almost) no air moving across the orifice plate?
Does anyone have any ideas on this? It is kind of frusterating to get this far only to have an issue like this. I have thought about building a new cabinet using a different material if need me.
FYI, the bench is a MSD style built with particle board (painted) with an orifice plate, top chamber and baffle using Mouse's FP1 system.
Thanks,
Brian
At this point I am kind of puzzled. To me everything seems as it should work. The only thing I can think of checking is the seal on the exhaust valve. I would imagine that if it was leaking it would affect the leakage test. When doing a leakage test I would imagine that the location of the incline manometer tubes inside the bench should not make much of a difference because there should be (almost) no air moving across the orifice plate?
Does anyone have any ideas on this? It is kind of frusterating to get this far only to have an issue like this. I have thought about building a new cabinet using a different material if need me.
FYI, the bench is a MSD style built with particle board (painted) with an orifice plate, top chamber and baffle using Mouse's FP1 system.
Thanks,
Brian
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by Mousehouse1 » Wed Mar 01, 2006 3:00 pm
Post some pictures if you have some? What did you change from the original design?
Larry C told me to use a lit candle and use it to see if there are any leaks around the outside of your cabinet. The paint should take care of the wood leaking. What did you use to seal your valves? If you exhaust valve is open any it will cause your leakage to go up. 80 is a lot and you have a problem somewhere. I ran into the same thing when I was building my bench. You will find it but it just takes time. Trust me I know how you feel. I wanted to scrap my bench and build another one but worked through it all and now it is mostly finished. I have a few things I want to do to it but the bench is working and the other changes can wait.
Larry C told me to use a lit candle and use it to see if there are any leaks around the outside of your cabinet. The paint should take care of the wood leaking. What did you use to seal your valves? If you exhaust valve is open any it will cause your leakage to go up. 80 is a lot and you have a problem somewhere. I ran into the same thing when I was building my bench. You will find it but it just takes time. Trust me I know how you feel. I wanted to scrap my bench and build another one but worked through it all and now it is mostly finished. I have a few things I want to do to it but the bench is working and the other changes can wait.
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by bseibenick » Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:02 pm
Yes, I am using mode 1. Some pictures and tonights results to follow...
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